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August 06, 2011

Comments

Dawn Carpenter

Yes, they did tell us, and when the history books are written, they will be honoured for it. We must get rid of the Heathites who have taken over our party and replace them with a proper Conservative leadership. I think as the euro-crisis deepens and EFTA, NAFTA, and the Commonwealth beckon, and as our thoughts turn increasingly toward trade with Asia, South America, and Africa -- and as the desperate EU makes increasing demands on us -- our backbenchers will act. Then we can go into the next election with the Kippers as our true allies, not the ghastly yellow b____ds.

Clement

Very ambitious Dawn, you're welcome to them. I don't think there will be any honouring of the shambolic UKIP in the history books, the only asset they have is the likeable Farage. The rest of them are right wing nutters, another good reason why I'd choose a tree hugging Liberal any day

Joe DeMocritus

They were absolutely right then and are still right about the EU and the Euro today.

Super Blue

It was the Conservative party that campaigned first, most actively and most effectively to keep Britain out of the Euro under the Major and Hague leaderships - although it is nice to have someone else join our bandwagon.

Nicholas Keen

"It was the Conservative party that campaigned first, most actively and most effectively to keep Britain out of the Euro under the Major and Hague leaderships - although it is nice to have someone else join our bandwagon."

Super Blue: As you know, this is about much more than the euro.

I Albion

Sad isn't it when anyone with a brain is talking sense people like Clement bring in the "Right Wing nutters"
abuse, it is almost a badge of pride when it said by a left wing nutter!

David MacDonald

Strange, isn’t it, that the very clever Oxbridge chaps with PPE degrees and a full time career devoted to public relations, politics and dining out with Rupert got it so wrong whilst the “right wing nutters and fruitcakes” (what is “right wing”, I often wonder, about honest finance and democracy?) were correct all along?

Clement

Say Albion, it's rather funny you talk about someone talking with a brain. There was a post a few weeks ago on the ConHome page about how the good old working class friendly Tory party can win working class voters and lead a campaign to conquer the bastion that is the north. Comments included things like "Oh dear we must stop calling poor people scroungers and benefits cheats, it really doesn't help our image". I come back a few days later and you revert back to your old ways. The north is still red because you don't get it, and probably a good job too, sincerity on here for poorer working class people is like a crocodile wanting world peace.

So anyway, when you spoke about people talking with brains, I looked at the UKIP video, laughed, looked at Dawn's post and her inner hatred of Liberal Democrats (cute cuddly creatures) and laughed again. Until recently the Tory party hated UKIP, cried as they took the votes of the right wingers and laughed at their disunity and folly in supporting AV. Thank god for the yellow b_____ds, they're saving us from the real nutters, the inner kippers of the Tory party members, baying for the blood of Mr Heath, and the resurrection of the pax Britannia.

Clement

And MacDonald, I'll take your comment as acceptance that Michael Foot and Tony Benn were right about the EEC all along, yes, cheers.

James: The Tories are so new to this EU hating stuff, they've even forgotten their history Harold
Harold: I'll never forget Tony Benn, and how he invoked hysterical hatred within me

Dawn Carpenter

We need now to separate ourselves from Europe both economically and politically. It is not necessary for the United Kingdom to "join" the United States to be free of the EU. A free, sovereign UK can retain all its ties to the Commonwealth and be a member of EFTA (which puts no restrictions on the trading arrangements its members make with non-members), and then sign the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which would give us access to the largest free trade area in the world. Each of the members of the NAFTA group is completely sovereign and has its own currency. The United States has no interest in taking over Canada; neither would they seek to take over the UK.

Denis Cooper

Super Blue -

"It was the Conservative party that campaigned first, most actively and most effectively to keep Britain out of the Euro under the Major and Hague leaderships - although it is nice to have someone else join our bandwagon."

That would be Major campaigning to keep Britain out the euro which he allowed to be created, and which he would have tried to get us into if he'd thought that he could get away with it.

christina Speight

Clement is sad;y adrift in his dislike of UKIP members and his like of Farage. He's got the wrong way round. Farage's record is a disgrace - the allegations of serious actions have never been answered. More members have left UKIP over Farage than for any other reason! He's a good speaker though but a nasty bit of work.

The ,members and the policy are, however, fine. There's nothing "right-wing" about their policies at all - plain common sense - in fact they are what many Tory members campaign for here on this blog.

David MacDonald


"And MacDonald" is a bit public school boyish, Clement, don’t you think? I have not been addressed quite that way for nearly 50 years! No matter…..

Yes Michael Foot and Tony Benn were correct. Michael Foot probably for the wrong reasons but Tony Benn correctly saw the EEC as being essentially anti-democratic. Enoch Powel was correct too.

Super Blue

Denis Cooper's assertion that "(Major) .... would have tried to get us into if he'd thought that he could get away with it." is against all the evidence and the recorded facts - just a nasty smear of someone who fought for sterling and won, whereas the 'kippers just boosted the profits of Brussels wine bars

David MacDonald

“whereas the 'kippers just boosted the profits of Brussels wine bars”

Is this comment really worthy of you, Super Blue?

I have not been to Brussels for more than 20 years; that was with my then young family and mainly to see the field of Waterloo. Our children were then too young for us to visit any wine bars.

I have fought three local elections as a UKIP candidate and actively supported UKIP two General Elections and two EU Parliament elections. During this time I have campaigned in our local market place, in shopping centres, delivered tens of thousands of leaflets and held public meetings. In all this, I paid for myself, my leaflets, my expenses and my meeting halls entirely out of my own pocket. This is so for almost all UKIP candidates because, unlike New Labour and the Modern Tories, we don’t have the backing of the financial elite, the bankers and the vested interests.

As for UKIP MEPs, their expenses are the same as other MEPS and, unlike the MEPs of the three man parties, UKIP has a policy of not going on taxpayer funded the EU Parliament junkets.

Nick Phillips

"unlike New Labour and the Modern Tories, we don’t have the backing of the financial elite, the bankers and the vested interests."

Why then do UKIP bang on about how the EU is destroying the City? If that was true, perhaps they would be supporting you...

Denis Cooper

Super Blue -

1. Major could have used his veto to prevent the EU creating its own currency, in which case there would have been no question of the UK joining it.

2. Although Tory backbenchers, "bastards" as he called some of them, forced Major to secure a treaty "opt-out" for the UK, that still left us set to be taken into the euro by a later government.

3. Major was carefully ambivalent about whether the UK should join the euro; while making critical noises about it, at no stage while he was Prime Minister did he actually rule it out.

Here's some recorded evidence from July 1996 - the Tory MP Julian Critchley writing in the Daily Mirror, complaining about the resignation of the Treasury Minister David Heathcote-Amory:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Treachery+will+wreck+my+party%3B+The+Tory+party+is+in+total+disarray...-a061328290

"That he should give as his reason a desire to campaign against a common currency is puzzling. John Major has deliberately kept his options open. There is no commitment by the government to join it willy-nilly."

"John Major has deliberately kept his options open" hardly describes somebody who was leading a campaign to keep us out of the euro, and who would he have been campaigning against - himself?

robert

Britain previously had to come out of the ERM and devalue.
Surely this is an option for any European country in similar trouble to come out of the Euro.

openeyes

"With hindsight, 2003 was the year when serious cracks in the European political compound became apparent... 2004 could be the year when markets begin to price in some dire consequences... Investors who make decisions for the long term should allow for the risk of the Euro falling apart."

Joachim Fels, Economist, Morgan Stanley. 'Euro Wreckage?' report, February 2004

Malcolm Wood

Thank the Lord we decided not to join the Euro.
Having said that there are still numpties in Parliament who think we should.

Andrew Smith

Jimmy Goldsmith's threat to their cozy futures was the only reason why we did not join the Euro. Having all given a promise for a referendum on the Euro, none of them dared to be the first to try to break the equivalent of a cast iron guarantee.

The intellectual heavy lifting was done by a few Conservative related people, out of favour with their party, and by the likes of Bruges Group, TFA and UKIP.

Then along came UKIP as a political force!

The feeling of "we told you so" is personally satisfying, but the disaster for the UK and the peoples of Europe remains acute. I do not suppose we will ever hear an apology from the culprits, many of whom are the same people who should have also apologised for their support for Communism before Maggie and Reagan brought about the downfall of the Soviet Union.

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