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September 29, 2011

Comments

James Pearce

Oborne was behaving like a typical small minded little islander - ooh, let's be rude to foreigners (because it actually avoids addressing the issue). The guy in Brussels was a spokesman, not the policymaker, so there was no need for any abuse, and I thought his initial response was rather measured. The only result of the events was that we heard little real discussion, just Oborne's massive ego.

It's attitudes like this that result in UKIP having no power whatsoever in Westminster. Forget measured debate, let's just stick to insults and endless showboating...

Faustiesblog

The first time he called the EU jobsworth an idiot was hugely satisfying - and most people would agree, entirely justified.

Repeating it twice might have been a mistake.

Interestingly, Paxo let him do it, appearing to condone Oborne's sentiments.

A breath of fresh air.

Let's hope that shockingly delicious incident finally opens up this cursed EU membership lark to full and frank public discussion. Oborne has made a great start and good for him!

Denis Cooper

I doubt that the man in Brussels is in fact an idiot.

Too many Britons still base their thinking about the EU on the presumption that we're dealing with misguided fools, a popular misconception which is deliberately sustained by some of our own politicians through the media.

On the contrary, we're up against people who may be deeply misguided in their devotion to euro-federalism but who are very clever, extremely devious, unhesitatingly deceitful and totally unscrupulous.

And the eurocrats can afford to be deceitful and unscrupulous, because they know it's unlikely that they'll be pulled up and held to account, let alone ever be forced to reverse something they've done.

As for Lambert - his defence that "the facts changed" might be acceptable if what he'd previously advocated would have been largely reversible if it didn't work out, but it doesn't wash when he pushed for something which was, and still is, held to be completely irreversible.

Which is another EU treaty change that Cameron should be demanding - there must be an EU treaty mechanism for a country which has joined the euro to later make an orderly withdrawal, perhaps because "the facts changed", and without necessarily having to also leave the EU altogether through the procedure now laid down in Article 50 TEU.

Ian H.Thain

Chris:-

It was also reported on the BBC's Today programme at just after 06:00 hrs.

James Pearce

"The first time he called the EU jobsworth an idiot was hugely satisfying - and most people would agree, entirely justified."

No, satisfying to those of you on the wingnut hard-right perhaps, but evidence shows you remain strictly within a minority among the UK population. This country is a mature democracy, we debate rationally here. I'm sick to death of the Eurosceptic movement being held back by a plethora of massive egos within it.

Roger Black

"I think Oborne was gratuitiously offensive - he could have referred to the EU spokesman's ideas as idiotic, but to call the man himself an idiot just isn't on. " This is the same sort of PC nonsense that says we must say that children aren't naughty, it's just that their behaviour is. Sorry, in my book if you behave naughtily, you ARE naughty and if you talk idiotically, you ARE an idiot. And by the way, you've just broken your own rule by calling Oborne offensive, when you should have merely said his remarks were offensive! I say well done Peter Oborne for speaking for the majority of people who are no longer represented on this matter by their elected representatives.

Mary Wylie

This has to be the final wakeup call to our country, come on David Cameron, listen to your party members and all the groups forming who are asking you for a referendum. Well done Peter Oborne

Ian H.Thain

Chris, the report you mention was also carried by the BBC's Today programme this morning just after 6 am. (I have already posted this once, but the post quickly disappeared).

Nicholas Keen

Oborne may be correct, but his loutish, unintelligent, bull-headed presentation is exactly the kind of thing that prevents UKIP from being taken too seriously. "I told you so" is not a good approach -- things can and will turn and turn again.

Jana

Oh chill out, Peter Buss. "Idiot" is hardly the most offensive word in the British lexicon, and an awful lot of people, Europhiles included, would agree that the EU has been distinctly idiotic, first in establishing the Euro, secondly in undermining it, thirdly in dithering for the past two years.

If Peter Oborne has done wrong, the Eurosceptic cause will get over it. But there are plenty of Eurosceptics making the "reasonable" argument to great effect: Daniel Hannan, Douglas Carswell, John Redwood, for example. But Oborne is a journalist; he's entitled to put his personal opinion, or to reflect the opinion of his readers -- and that is angry! Trust me, had I been in Oborne's place, I would not have been using words as mild as "idiot".

These people need to understand the anger of the citizens. The citizens need to have somebody represent them.

Faustiesblog

The first time he called the EU jobsworth an idiot was hugely satisfying - and most people would agree, entirely justified.

Repeating it twice might have been a mistake.

Interestingly, Paxo let him do it, appearing to condone Oborne's sentiments.

A breath of fresh air.

Let's hope that shockingly delicious incident finally opens up this cursed EU membership lark to full and frank public discussion. Oborne has made a great start and good for him!

Chris

Question for TIM MONTGOMERIE, and response to Mary Wylie and Denis: my post has disappeared yet again. What is going on? Let me repeat my question: is it true that, as was reported this morning, the so called Tobin tax proposed by Barroso will bring in approx £50 billion, of which £40 billion would come from UK institutions?
Tim, please can you sort out the gremlin in the works - the more often my statement about the costs to the UK of the Tobin tax are posted and then swiftly disappear, the more it looks like it is a deliberate effort to remove unpleasant truths. I understand this has happened to other posters. I have written nothing offensive, nor made untrue claims. I have merely reported something that has been stated in the national media, and have asked if it is true.

Chris

Barroso gets the Farage treatment (and with some not inconsiderable applause).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNnZPVpkkj0

Denis Cooper

I doubt that the man in Brussels is in fact an idiot.

Too many Britons still base their thinking about the EU on the presumption that we're dealing with misguided fools, a popular misconception which is deliberately sustained by some of our own politicians through the media.

On the contrary, we're up against people who may be deeply misguided in their devotion to euro-federalism but who are very clever, extremely devious, unhesitatingly deceitful and totally unscrupulous.

And the eurocrats can afford to be deceitful and unscrupulous, because they know it's unlikely that they'll be pulled up and held to account, let alone ever be forced to reverse something they've done.

As for Lambert - his defence that "the facts changed" might be acceptable if what he'd previously advocated would have been largely reversible if it didn't work out, but it doesn't wash when he pushed for something which was, and still is, held to be completely irreversible.

Which is another EU treaty change that Cameron should be demanding - there must be an EU treaty mechanism for a country which has joined the euro to later make an orderly withdrawal, perhaps because "the facts changed", and without necessarily having to also leave the EU altogether through the procedure now laid down in Article 50 TEU.

Denis Cooper

Why has my post been removed, and why am I prevented from re-posting it?

Denis Cooper

Try again.

I doubt that the man in Brussels is in fact an idiot.

Too many Britons still base their thinking about the EU on the presumption that we're dealing with misguided fools, a popular misconception which is deliberately sustained by some of our own politicians through the media.

On the contrary, we're up against people who may be deeply misguided in their devotion to euro-federalism but who are very clever, extremely devious, unhesitatingly deceitful and totally unscrupulous.

And the eurocrats can afford to be deceitful and unscrupulous, because they know it's unlikely that they'll be pulled up and held to account, let alone ever be forced to reverse something they've done.

As for Lambert - his defence that "the facts changed" might be acceptable if what he'd previously advocated would have been largely reversible if it didn't work out, but it doesn't wash when he pushed for something which was, and still is, held to be completely irreversible.

Which is another EU treaty change that Cameron should be demanding - there must be an EU treaty mechanism for a country which has joined the euro to later make an orderly withdrawal, perhaps because "the facts changed", and without necessarily having to also leave the EU altogether through the procedure now laid down in Article 50 TEU.

Denis Cooper

Apologies, it was just on the next page, silly me.

Chris

I think some in the higher echelons of the Cons party have a lot to learn about presentation, boldness, the art of communication, and the ability to listen to people and to relate to what concerns people. Although I do not vote for UKIP, Farage is a real tonic to listen to on this clip in the European Parliament, where he completely exposes the non democratic nature of the EU with reference to the most recent events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNnZPVpkkj0 - "You have never had it so good" clip

Phileas

Well done Peter!

Me? you can call me anything you wish just don't call me late for breakfast!

Corporal Jones

Well done Peter! They don't like it up 'em!
It is the old story. If you do not agree with a socialist you are an enemy!

Patsy Sergeant

I suppose Peter Oborne was a little strong, but he feels very strongly about the imbalance between Germany and the rest of Europe - as some of the rest of us do!!

As for the 'wet' ex-Financial Times man, he would bow and scrape to any Leader that put on an act for him.

I found that what the man for 'Europe' was saying deeply insulting to the UKplc, he was stating that Britain was in the same position as Greece, thereby inferring that our present position was because we had been improvident and never paid our taxes - AND I FOR ONE OBJECT TO THAT SINCE I ALWAYS PAY MY TAXES - WHATEVER IS ASKED!!! And millions of people in this country pay their taxes - many, many more than do in Greece - otherwise how would we be able to support so many people on benefits!!!!!

And the Financial Times man was hardly going to allow the main reason for our deficit to be mentioned - namely Gordon Brown's incredible ability to waste HUGE sums of money - to absolutely NO avail, as well of course his shrewdness in choosing the absolutely worst time to sell off our gold reserves.

I didn't find Peter too rude - perhaps one less 'idiot', might have been better.

But I wouldn't be surprised if he - Peter - doesn't see the danger, that I think is a possibility, if we are not tough enough, and that is that the interference with London - the Money Markets and the Bank of England - is the true objective of Germany i.e. TOTAL control of our money! Because it is a prize that is just too good to leave alone.

By the way WHAT is Greece going to do to get to grips with the debt situation that it is in? We keep being told that everybody has to put money INTO Greece, which will then disappear down the drain of its debt. We also learn that some Greek politicians are corrupt, - so perhaps they should have their assets stripped!

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