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September 29, 2011

Comments

Matt

Oborne didn't do his arguments any favour there. Being gratuitously rude just makes you look like an idiot.

George Kaplan

Rude? Yes? Crude? Yes? Spot on? 100%!

George Kaplan

'The Euro is in fact a shield that has protect economies' - get that man a straight jacket and give him a blood test, he might be hallucinating.

Oswald

My respect for Oborne has risen enormously. I see that another person can't spell straitjacket!

Albert Hall

His education was a product of socialism.

Dennis

Rude yes - but I admire Peter Osborne's genuine passionate righteous indignation. After all, the nonsense the Eurocrat was spewing out beggared belief. Mr Osborne pointed it out in no uncertain terms - Quite refreshing.

Robbo

Now that really took the debate forward, didn't it. Red card for Oborne and no more oxygen opportunities for the book...please

Peter Thurgood

Debate Dennis - what debate?

The EU do not debate - they lay down the law and walk out of discussion when anyone questions their saneness!

Chris

I believe that there will be those in the higher echelons of the EU who will attempt to use this against Oborne and smear him. His outbursts were regrettable but they come from utter frustration and anger at what so many perceive as the utter disingenuity of some of the Eurocrats. What particularly horrifed me was the apparent absolute acceptance by some, including I believe the lady (Katinka?) from a European Reform Group, that the electorate must not be told the whole picture before, for example, the critical German vote otherwise things would not get passed in the parliament - it had to be a stage by stage process, building up to the bigger goal. I understood Jeremy Paxman to be considerably disturbed by this dishonesty, with him putting a question directly on this issue. What this all seemed to reveal was a fundamental dishonesty within the workings of the EU machine, a machine which seems only intent on perpetuating itself/keeping power, no matter the cost to the citizens. The report by Paul Mason on Greece was highly informative and of huge concern. It would seem that the Greeks will be subordinated within the EU machine completely, not able to be free to determine anything, constantly in debt and in austerity measures, always in subservience to a master in Brussels. The true horror of what this might entail was hinted at last night in the report on Greece. To listen to all of this, and to hear Barroso yesterday detailing the ideas of taking stronger measures and taking greater powers for Brussels - this from an unelected individual - is highly disturbing. Where is the democracy in all of this?
I believe that Cameron has to make a stand, and he must listen to his grassroots Conservatives.

Paul Bromley

Well said Oborne, if the EU spokesman had been in the same studio, Peter would probably of slapped him for talking such rubbish !

Elaine Turner

I think Oborne was gratuitiously offensive - he could have referred to the EU spokesman's ideas as idiotic, but to call the man himself an idiot just isn't on. He did himself no favours and as a consequence he did the point of view that many of us espouse on this site no favours. You can be so much more sophisticated in the way you to kill an opponent. A stiletto that isn't immediately noticed is neater than the bludgeoning carried out here and I do just wonder if something alcoholic had been imbibed beforehand to cause the loss of inhibition.

Richard Lambert was so incensed by the attack on him he didn't contribute anything of worth to the debate... but even if he hadn't been I doubt the contribution would have been up to much. The FT is pink for a reason... it has to do with their political views.

Dennis

Peter

'Debate Dennis - What debate?' I do not mention anything about debate. I assume you are referring to the comment below mine?

Mike 19

I believe that Oborne did his argument no good at all ..... we can all be rude and very insulting but it does not add to the debate and debases us as a ' civilised ' nation..... please Newsnight do not invite him again unless he can behave !!!

Ricardian

I was very moved by the plight of the Greek people as shown by Paul Mason on Newsnight. It was quite frightening too. As Dawn Carpenter said on another thread, this could end in riots or worse. The school children with no books was particularly upsetting. Peter Oborne was rude but I think he had come to the end of his tether and I do not blame him. The EU Official was obnoxious.

Y Rhyfelwr Dewr

Oborne is only saying what an awful lot of Eurosceptics would say themselves, given the opportunity. If you stole £500 from my family, I sure as hell would not be respectful to you. So why should I be respectful to the Brussels bureaucrats whose bailout policies have cost each and every household in the nation that much?

Perhaps if we stopped faffing around, kow-towing to a very arrogant bunch of idiots (who certainly don't deserve a fraction of the respect they think they're owed), they'd understand just how deeply reviled they are, how their bullshit ambitions are affecting ordinary people, and perhaps they'd understand the need to actually listen to us rather more. Why should we be respectful to people who are hell-bent on imposing their ambitions upon us and undermining our democracies, regardless of the pain and suffering they inflict upon us and our children? All this circumspect courtesy simply reinforces the impression in the ivory tower that they don't need to change anything.

david

In the later part of the discussion Oborne wasn't there. The only person taking a eurosceptic position at all was Paxman! Good old BBC.

Jana

Sorry Matt and Mike 19. I didn't think Oborne's argument did the cause any harm at all. Nice to hear somebody for once, calling it like it is. I'd have a lot more time for David Cameron if I heard him periodically being altogether more forthright about the EU.

People said much the same things about thatcher when she declared, "I want my money back!" Ooh, bad one, maggie. Too disrespectful. Too shrill. Too undiplomatic.

But she got the money, didn't she? Then that nice Mr Blair, always so polite, so constructive, so "mature" lost half of it again, winning nothing in return.

You can't be circumspect with these Eurocrats. They are not gentlemen.

RCS

I think that it is good for Eurocrats to be abused in public. He talked utter rubbish and rather than listening to a load of oleoagenous obfuscation, Peter Oborne told him what he thought of him.

If this happened more often, Eurocrats might understand that they command distain, not respect.

Peter Thurgood

Dennis - sorry for mistake - I should have been replying to Robbo!

Ian H.Thain

I have been called much worse than an idiot, but I cannot recall ever having walked out of a debate.

Oborne's points were never properly answered, and Lambert's assertion that the Euro would endure was based upon nothing more solid than puerile wishful thinking, viz "because the consequences of failure would be disastrous". Had he been editing the FT in the thirties he might as well have said that appeasement had to work "because the consequences of failure would be disastrous". That line didn't prevent the failure of appeasement, nor the disaster which followed it, because it prefered simply to ignore the brutal reality of Hitler.

Wishful thinking is not what determines the future, and it should never be found in anybody in any leadership role. Outcomes are determined by reality, sometimes brutal and un-thinkable reality, and I heard nothing of that from anybody in this clip except Oborne.

Peter Buss

Depends on whether or not eurosceptics feel its important to advance your argument.If you feel that rudeness and insults are all thats needed then you will say "well done Peter". If on ther other hand you think its important to your cause that your arguments are portrayed in a reasonable and clam fashion giving the impression that you are not slightly unhinged than Peters performance will sadden you.The great shame is that Oborne is a very intelligent and reasonable guy who could have been just about the most articulate and credible guy to lead the eurosceptic charge. He has now blown that possibility big time and so you are left with for example Carswell who yet again on the News last night came over with that strange glint in his eye. Why do you EU haters keep shooting yourselves in the foot. Best person to enlist for your cause would be David Owen who towers above any other eurosceptic in the Land.

Ian H.Thain

Well said Y Rhyfelwr Dewr! Go to the top of the class. :)

Guy

Theses Eurocrats deserve to be called idiots these are the people who at every opportunity tax and regulate us
much as they can driving Europe into slow growth backward looking welfare addicted mess.
I am glad Oborne called out the
FT and lets not have sympathy with and editor who like every other Europhile used to not too subtly imply that those who disagreed with the euro were little englander rascists.

Chris

It has been reported by the press today that the tax proposed by Barroso would raise £50 billion, of which £40 billion would come from UK institutions. Is this true? (Why has my previous post reporting this, after briefly appearing on your site, been removed?)

John Bright

It was good to see Peter Oborne call a spade a spade regarding the EU.

It would be interesting to learn whether his sudden disappearance from his chair was voluntary or involuntary.

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