WWII veteran Ralph says he wants AV because his vote has never, ever counted under First Past The Post

Hat tip to LibDemVoice.

Comments

[Martin Marprelate- A Man in the Street!]

Good for you Ralph! Oh and thanks for your service for us all in the RN!

[Rob g]

My Grandfather is a D-Day veteran. And he certainly believes that he didnt fight so that one day, some misserable little electoral system could be forced upon people. In fact I spent a whole day with him talking to me about how stupid he thinks this whole referendum is.

[Elaine Turner]

Oh good grief. I think this is old boy, like all of those who have or who are serving their country are wonderful for the service that they have given. But is it appropriate to use him for this sort of thing? My former father in law was highly decorated in the second world war and took part in a number of interesting actions from the Russian convoys, to being in the flotilla that freed Malta, taking part in the first Lafoten raid that captured the first of the code books that helped us with the Engigma Code and action in the Pacific ocean where he rammed a German U Boat. He would be on his high horse that yet another group of political oiks was trying to destroy the traditions that had made this small island great.

This is untterly contemptible.

[nonny mouse]

So does Ralph live in one of the 3% of constituencies that are safe under FPTP but not under AV?

[Clement]

Is using this form of emotional black mail supposed to make me feel guilty about supporting no2av?

I'm sure Ralph did his family and country proud, like so many others. My great-grandfather is buried in Anzio and my other grandad was in the navy for 5 years. But using this fellow in a political campaign is perhaps a little tasteless.

[Chad Noble (ex ToryBlog.com)]

"But is it appropriate to use him for this sort of thing?"

Strangely, I agree entirely Elaine.

What sort of campaign would be so cynical as to try an feature real people in a video who feel robbed of democracy, when Rik Mayall is available to say anything for cash?

I think, again, this campaign is a response to more accusations from Warsi, the completely unelected minister preaching lies about people fighting for FPTP (ie deliberately confusing it with democracy).

[eugene]

Gee.....AV still means your vote will not be counted anyway....and it DOES mean that other peoples' first choice might be discounted...hey, they might lose out to the second and third choice of other voters- what an insult and what an unfair system AV is.

[Michael - NO2AV]

Somebody should point out to him that if he votes for one of the three main parties, his second or third preferences won't be counted anyway..in 7 out of 10 constituencies at the last GE research showed that voters of the three main parties didn't have preferences counted..

A miserable little compromise designed purely for the benefit of Lib Dems and to give extra influence for those voters who support the BNP and other fringe parties

[blueful]

'I might as well have died on the D-Day beaches...' I think that is a bit rich - what is this - emotional blackmail at a whole new level? And the music? Needless to say there are many servicemen who gave their lives on the D-Day beaches who would have wanted first past the post - in fact this has made me quite cross - low, very low indeed.

[Clement]

"'I might as well have died on the D-Day beaches...' I think that is a bit rich - what is this - emotional blackmail at a whole new level? And the music? Needless to say there are many servicemen who gave their lives on the D-Day beaches who would have wanted first past the post - in fact this has made me quite cross - low, very low indeed."

Well said blueful, bit rich for him to say ridiculous stuff like that when so many like my great grandfather died for their families rather than a silly voting system. It's so offensive for him to say that, my grandad never got a chance to know his father

[Geoff Montegriffo]

If you vote, it counts. No amount of medals and emotional blackmail stops him being anything other than an exploited old man. Shame on the people who talked him into this circus-freakery.

[Holly]

This AV 'debate'simply proves once & for all that ALL politicians,once elected,treat us as zombies.
There are a few scenarios going on here..Either Clegg & Co for the YES and Cameron & Co for the NO have pre planned their campaigns,so they know how bad the 'attacks' will be,or Clegg is telling the truth(Quite unusual for a politician in government)and really does think the Tories have some kind of dominant position over governing..Also quite odd after losing election after election to Labour.

What SHOULD be happening is a MASSIVE campaign for the I REFUSE TO VOTE IN YOUR FUTILE REFERENDUM.
I have been undecided for ages and listening to the pathetic claims & counter claims over the weekend, I refuse to back either side and withold my vote in the referendum.

The politicians fob us off with the same old rubbish about how politics gets 'nasty' during election time,well I for one am quite disgusted at the foolish behaviour of the people I thought,and who indeed told us, they stood for a different type of politics.
They can take a hike...they do not deserve my support and until they grow up they will not get my vote.
Buy into their game at your own free will,but if, like me you dispair at their petty bickering,use your right to withold your X for something more meaningful and a lot more positive for us punters.

[John Wood]

As I've written before.

Unless Ralph is a prisoner, is insane, under 18! or a member of the House of Lords/ Royal Family then his vote DOES count.

All it means is that more people in the area where he lives prefers a different political party.

If he wants his vote to count he should move to another area which is represented by a member of the political party he supports.

[Liberal]

DON'T BE A MUG, VOTE YES TO AV.

CAN'T YOU SEE THE RICH BANKING ELITE ARE USING YOU?? They do not stand up for you. Some very powerful vested interests are taking alot of well meaning tories for one big ride.

Wake up and stop listening to Murdoch.

[robert]

The YEStoAV campaign have stooped even lower than before by exploiting an old man.
Ralph is wrong as his vote was used and counted but he did not choose the winner who received the most overall votes from the electorate.
He fought for freedom and has that freedom to vote for who he likes.

[Stephen W]

This is a clear and present for some form of PR or AMS, where yes, everyone's vote does count towards electing someone. Under AV this is no more true than FPTP, unless you're in one of the about 3% of seats that will go from safe to marginal thanks to AV.

[Martin Marprelate- A Man in the Street!]

" The YES2AV campaign have stooped even lower than before by exploiting an old man."

-------------------

Really? So we can forget all about your lot's lies about the £251 million pounds costs which will deny babies medical treatment, soldiers body armour etc, the hysterical shreaking of Warsi, the hypocritcal mutterings of "Lord" Reid a former Commmunist activist, the Videos of Kids winning the School Sports and then the third place winner getting the prize, and I am sick of the name of Usian Bolt not winning a race, he may actually be beaten by a better athlete anyway in the REAL world, not to mention some horse that could well end up as petfood one day also losing out.

All invalid comparisons to AV, but hey, don't let a few lies discourage you in your campaign Robert! One would think that poor old Ralph had been kidnappped and threatened by torture by the Gestapo the way some of the Anti-AV brigade are going on here. Is it not just possible that an old man actually thinks that AV is better by himself? My father is aged 90, he was in the RAF in WW2, and he is in favour of AV.

You anti-AV people make me sick and I am glad we are no longer in the same political party!

[CityBoy]

A sad indictment of the desperation of the Yes Camp. They are losing and they know it.

[Liberal]

'A sad indictment of the desperation of the Yes Camp. They are losing and they know it' - Cityboy

Not according to the latest poll. Yes 2 AV are winning and No are losing.
Now its all about getting those Labour voters on side and Mandelson is already dominating the headlines with his call to arms.

[Mr Angry]

Like everything else now coming from the deluded YES to AV camp this just stinks of rank desperation at the knowledge that they have no real arguments and that the electorate are not falling for their nonsense. Roll on May 6th and having all of this AV rubbish kicked firmly and permanently well into touch, followed shortly afterwards by what's left of the LibDems.

[Liberal]

Shame on you so called patriots for attacking this man for making a stand for his beliefs. You should be ashamed of yourselves suggesting its meaningless, he's been conned et. Who do you think you are?
You shame our country.

[North West Tory]

I frankly don't care if Ralph served in the Second World War. It has no bearing on the debate and it does not make his case for AV any better. It's just desperate emotional blackmail.

[Steve Tierney]

He's entitled to his opinion, so are the rest of us. I think he's wrong. A vote for a loser counts just as much as a vote for the winner. It's not like the votes for the loser are dumped in a black bag and not included. They just don't win.

[Toby]

Everybody can have his say ! however what is overlooked is that to be really, really fair we need a PR system like the Dutch and Finns have. Consider how Dutch and Finnish voters have brought overbearing, bullying governments to heel !

[Chad Noble (ex ToryBlog.com)]

"Shame on you so called patriots for attacking this man for making a stand for his beliefs."

Quite right. Shameful.

Ralph said he supports fairer votes. We don't know if he sees the AV vote as a step towards PR, if he loves AV etc, just that he wants change and is supporting Yes to achieve it.

No wonder the old large No poll lead has now collapsed into a lead for Yes. It seems people prefer the over optimism of the Yes campaign to the downright lies and cynicism of the No camp.