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November 03, 2010

Comments

Donut Hinge Party

Manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility, not murder. Strong argument to say that he should have been sectioned, rather than merely convicted.

And he's served his time.

Unless you're publically announcing support for the death penalty here, you should be pleased that an individual has rehabilitated themself and is now using their experience to try and improve things for a section of society.

Because if you're not going to allow an individual to move on with their life, then you might as well lock them up until they rot.

And if you're going to lock them up until they rot, with no possibility of release or reform, you might as well just hang them.

abelard

Actually the bit about there being a ginger rodent on Andrew Neill's head did make me laugh

Denis Cooper

Totally wrong - this is a matter of CIVIL rights, the rights specific to a citizen, not a matter of any wider human rights. Pity that the Tories haven't insisted of making that distinction in recent decades.

John Coles

I seem to remember that this shiny new Government of ours was going to repatriate powers from Brussels. Yet, here we are, with the sensible English concept of 'Civic Death' for offenders being overturned by ECHR 'legislation'. We are not independent. We are a vassal state to Brussels. And Mr Cameron, a craven Europhile, will do NOTHING about it.

Denis Cooper

John Coles, as I'm sure you're aware, the European Court of Human Rights has decided this, not the EU.

However it does appear that some of the EU treaty amendments brought in with the Treaty of Lisbon have set up the EU and its Court of Justice up as enforcers of the judgements of the ECHR.

Article 6 TEU on page 19 here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2010:083:0013:0046:EN:PDF

which ends by saying:

"Fundamental rights, as guaranteed by the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and as they result from the constitutional traditions common to the Member States, shall constitute general principles of the Union's law."

Presumably therefore compliance with ECHR judgements could now fall within the jurisdiction of the EU's Court of Justice.

barney12345

"I seem to remember that this shiny new Government of ours was going to repatriate powers from Brussels. Yet, here we are, with the sensible English concept of 'Civic Death' for offenders being overturned by ECHR 'legislation'. We are not independent. We are a vassal state to Brussels. And Mr Cameron, a craven Europhile, will do NOTHING about it."

Except that the ECHR, is based in Strasbourg and is not the EU, do not confuse it with ECJ which is the EU's highest court.

Nevertheless, foreign Judges should not be making UK law and Cameron did promise to repatriate powers from the ECHR and incorporate them in a UK Bill of Rights. Except he has forgotten that commitment since he lost the election and turned all SDP.

Vulture

This man should have been executed - even though my comment saying so has been removed by CH censors..

Failing that he should NOT have the vote and no Tory MP should allow it - no matter what the cost.

David

I am against the death penalty, but would consider making an exception in his case.

Justin Hinchcliffe

What an evil and ugly bastard. May he perish in Hell.

PDF

LOL

Pure Allan Partridge!

I agree with the comment above though. The man's served his time so he should be allowed to move on.

Unless you have the moral courage to support the death penalty, that is.

Do you?

Jack

"This man should have been executed - even though my comment saying so has been removed by CH censors."

That's what nearly all conservatives and most labour voters have been saying for 20, 30 40, nearly fifty years. But how many of them bothered to find out if their local tory candidate supported capital punishment? If they had cared a damn about upholding our civilisation they would have heckled, harassed, and chucked eggs at the pro-crime weasels voting them out and making sure they were kept off the ballots. There is no excuse for tolerating a political class which is at odds with the country on so important an issue for so long.

Ultimo Tiger

We didn't execute people for manslaughter even when we did have the death penalty.

Get it right dummies.

"There is no excuse for tolerating a political class which is at odds with the country on so important an issue for so long."

It's the country that is at odds. The sooner they drop the silly mindset that executing people is a nice thing the better.

JCS

Personally I am in favour of the death penalty and think that having that ultimate deterant is the only way we will ever be able to have a less violent society.

Winston Smith

Yet another example that voting Tory at General Elections is now a waste of time.

ROJ

"Manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility, not murder. Strong argument to say that he should have been sectioned, rather than merely convicted.
And he's served his time."

My understanding is that his plea of manslaughter was accepted by the prosecution. Under our system, that means that a jury did not have the opportunity to decide betweeen murder and manslaughter, and if they had done, perhaps the conviction would have been for murder.

And as for serving his time, that supposes that one accepts fifteen years as a reasonable penalty for an unprovoked and premeditated murderous assault. One does not have to believe in the death penalty to feel that fifteen years is not enough.

Mack

I notice that the lawyers who presented his case, courtesy of the taxpayer, are conspicuous by their absence. Probably still enjoying their fat fees.

Super Blue

Had Hirst, like Brady and Sutcliffe, been sectioned and not imprisoned, he would be in a different category of non-voter.

Blue Squaddie

How can any decent person not be disgusted by this? I'm appalled.

Victor Southern

I saw this live so to speak. It was a disgusting exhibition of an anti-social person mocking the attitudes of normal people.

fred

What a disgrace how do we allow this individual so much publicity.He is obviously insane and a great advertisement for the death penalty even if his case was deemed as manslaughter.In fact lets have a referendum on the death penalty.Hopefully one day this will happen and we could save a fortune for the law abiding tax payers and resolve the situation of murderers requiring a vote. If only the death penalty had been available for Mr Hirst and none of the appaling publicity would be happening now.

John

I am so old that I believe that a "life sentence" means imprisonment until the criminal dies and that execution is more merciful.
How is the vote a "Human Right"?
I have been given to understand that the citizens of Liechtenstein and Monaco are enjoying prosperity and all other factors that one might attribute to the concept of "human rights" to a far higher degree than such democracies as the USA or the member states of the EU, as were the female citizens of Switzerland before votes for women were introduced.
THERE CAN BE NO RIGHTS WITHOUT CORRESPONDING DUTIES IMPOSED UPON THE REST OF SOCIETY. THE LOWEST BASIS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS WOULD HAVE STOPPED MR HIRST KILLING HIS LANDLADY. SO ANY APPEAL THAT HE MAKES TO HUMAN RIGHTS LEGISLATION IS A JOKE THAT I DO NOT FIND AMUSING

Mark

Tim, you're right - not only does it make my blood boil but the whole issue has me thinking again about renewing my membership of the party. I've been a member for fifteen years, but I think this might be the last straw.

To hear Cameron bleat away about how he feels physically sick yet seems to think he can't take a stand and do anything about it is beyond the pail.

If you want to understand why people are leaving the party then it's not complicated. We all worked hard to elect a conservative government and instead we have a continuation of the same hypocrisy (photographers for God's sake), media manipulation and the abandonment about nearly everything I thought we stood for.

David Harper

Voting is a matter of human rights?

Most of the world has a less than satisfactory voting system.

What about OUR "human rights" within the EU?

Steve Tierney

"And that is what is wrong with society, isn't it?" says the Axe Murderer.

Unbelievable.

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