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From a purely financial point of view, these companies are quite right to pull out of this scheme.
If they don't they will lose business to competitors who actually pay their employees.
Lots of people (quite rightly) will avoid shopping in a place where the state forces people to work for nothing.
February 25, 2012 at 12:59 PM
I love how the BBC call the scheme controversial when a huge majority of the people support welfare reform.
February 25, 2012 at 01:03 PM
What rubbish. If Tesco or Burger King have work for these people, they can damn well pay them. It is not for the state to use struggling taxpayers' money to subsidise free labour for multinationals.
It's one rule for big businesses and one rule for everyone else. If the local corner shop or kebab house took someone on and paid them cash in hand, they'd get a dawn raid from HMRC.
Cleethorpes Rock |
February 25, 2012 at 01:03 PM
He is just angry that some people regard this policy as a failure and free speech has been used to derail something he supports.
That is why he uses the antiquated epithet "Communist" to denigrate his opponents.
I personally think the scheme is a good idea and not exploitation but I like to see arrogant Tories of his stripe discomfitted.
February 25, 2012 at 01:03 PM
Isn't it ironic that the apparatchik above, who thinks that the state should force its subjects to work for nothing, is accusing his opponents of being communists?
February 25, 2012 at 01:03 PM
Cleethorpes Rock |
February 25, 2012 at 01:07 PM
Getting the unemployed to work in public works might be a good idea, but forcing them to work for free in the private sector doesn't benefit anybody.
All it does is create more unemployment.
Why should firms hire people when they can use state supplied slave labour instead ?
February 25, 2012 at 01:10 PM
They don't. Companies are putting a work experience programme of activities in place for them so that kids can experience working life and put something on their CV.
Something that I did regularly, as it happens - and in doing so needed to find resourses in my organisation to plan the placements, give them a proper induction, a variety of experiences, mentor them, measure their progress and give them valuable feedback.
You and your friends should be ashamed of yourselves. Wreckers all of you, denying youngsters the chance to smaple different activities and develop skills so that they have at least a chance of competing for work with experienced labour from overseas who take upto 80% of the available jobs.
But of course it really isn't these schemes that the SWP is against - it is simply a vehicle for them to attack business and bring about their 'revolution' - not my word, theirs.
February 25, 2012 at 01:16 PM
The emphasis surely has to be "communicate the message clearly". This scheme is a very good thing for young people who are seeking to get into the job market.....it will help young people to develop a good work ethic, punctuality, commitment to team principles, how to dress for work and, on the company side....receive training with the possibility of a position on completion....even if a position isn't offered they have the opportunity to receive a reference and something concrete to include on their CV.
Now, a question for the public.....are you willing to fall for the blather that these so-called "activists" are peddling? The scheme is clearly not "slave labour" - it is costly to the employers taking part.....it is costly to the taxpayer - remember how much it costs you and me to keep people on Jobseeker's Allowance. I am pretty fed up with this small vociferous cabal dictating what should be paid to unemployed youth....we are already paying them and we would hope there might be a willingness on their part to give the scheme their best shot.
February 25, 2012 at 01:17 PM
I don't dispute anything in your first two paragraphs, but if firms want people, why don't they just pay them?
Why should some firms get a waiver from minimum wage and employment laws and others not?
Cleethorpes Rock |
February 25, 2012 at 01:36 PM
Here is the document that shows the government has been lying about the voluntary nature of work experience:
'Work Experience for JSA Claimants
14. Where you are providing support for JSA participants, which is work
experience you must mandate participants to this activity. This is to avoid
the National Minimum Wage Regulations, which will apply if JSA
participants are not mandated.'
February 25, 2012 at 01:39 PM
We are paying their benefits, so it might not be a bad idea for them to do some public work in return for that payment.
That way they could get all the advantages you mention (the habit of work etc) and it would also be fair.
What is neither fair nor sensible is for me to have to pay for the Tesco's shelf stackers.
Apart from anything else, this will cost the economy the real jobs which Tescos will no longer have to provide.
February 25, 2012 at 01:44 PM
Scrap the minimum wage and price more people into jobs.
It doesn't add up... |
February 25, 2012 at 03:28 PM
It needs something bold, scrapping the minimum wage would make it possible to employ more people and would remove the artificial drag on the wages of the more skilled worker. If we ever hope to pay off these debts we will need better paid employment to be a goal in itself. We should certainly want to make the most of the slow learning curve of the Green, and therefore less useful worker.
The commies are right we must have work, its a nonsense to fund such wastage. Better to pay people to work than pay them to sit around idle. JSA rate should be the new effective minimum end of. rate
Ross J Warren |
February 25, 2012 at 04:02 PM
The new effective minimum rate. End Of.
Ross J Warren |
February 25, 2012 at 04:05 PM
The point is that they are not working for nothing. They are already being paid by the rest of us who work and pay tax! Let them work for their welfare and gain some experience at the same time. It gives them incentive to get up in the morning, a self discipline and they should have pride in at least doing something!
Andrew Nicholas |
February 25, 2012 at 04:38 PM
It is your own party that is a front for the Far Left.
The entire Socialist Workers’ Party faction of Respect in Tower Hamlets not long ago defected to the Conservative Party after having fallen out with the Islamists. Johanna Kaschke, a longstanding Respect and Communist Party figure, left the Labour Party in 2007 after having failed to secure its nomination for the parliamentary seat of Bethnal Green and Bow, and ended that year by joining the Conservative Party, in which she has rapidly become a well-connected activist. Around the country, local factions of various Asian and other origins routinely defect from Labour or other things to the Conservatives on frankly communal grounds, and are always welcomed with open arms.
David Cameron’s vehicles toured Ealing Southall blasting out in Asian languages that Hindu, Muslim and Sikh festivals would be made public holidays under his party. His “Quality of Life Commission” (don’t laugh, it’s real) then proposed giving the power to decide these things to “local community leaders”. What else will those figures be given the power to decide in return for filling in every postal voting form in their households in the Bullingdon Boys’ interest, and making sure that all their mates did likewise? To the statelets thus created – little Caliphates, little Hindutvas, little Khalistans, and so on – people minded to live in such places will flock from the ends of the earth, entrenching the situation forever.
With some fanfare, the Conservative Party recently welcomed John Marek, who was fiercely anti-monarchist and anti-hunting while Labour MP for Wrexham, and who went on to become the founder and only ever Leader of Forward Wales, a Welsh separatist, Welsh-speaking supremacist, economically Hard Left, unyieldingly Politically Correct, Tommy Sheridan-endorsed, RMT-funded party which was only dissolved in January 2010, and which continues to be named as Marek’s party, despite his having become an enthusiastic Conservative, on the list of former MPs who continue to hold House of Commons passes.
Will David Cameron also recruit, if he has not already done so, Marek’s fellow founder-members of Forward Wales: Ron Davies, one of the very few former Cabinet Ministers without a seat in either House, and a noted campaigner both against shooting and for the abolition of the monarchy; Graeme Beard, a former Plaid Cymru councillor in Caerphilly; and Klaus Armstrong-Braun, who in his time on Flintshire County Council was the only Green Party member ever elected at county level in Wales?
Cameron has already signed up Mohammad Asghar, a Member of the Welsh Assembly who has moved seamlessly from Plaid Cymru. Rehman Chishti, now a rising star as MP for Gillingham and Rainham, was Francis Maude’s Labour opponent in 2005 while working for Benazir Bhutto, whom he assisted from 1991 until her assassination in 2007 in her leadership of a party the motto of which includes both “Islam is our Faith” and “Socialism is our Economy”; he was still doing that job when he defected to the Conservative Party in 2006 and became an aide to Maude as its Chairman. And so on, and on, and on.
They obviously find the 1980s Radical Right’s company as congenial as they find each other’s, with David Cameron and 80 per cent of his party’s MPs as members of Conservative Friends of Israel, which is not even a front for the thoroughly racist Israeli Government, since that would require some degree of secrecy, or at least of discretion, about the treasonable nature of the relationship. Liam Fox has had to resign as Secretary of State for, of all things, Defence because the Israeli Far Right and its nominally American fellow-travellers had, treasonably, been running a parallel foreign policy out of his office and through its subsidiary fake charity, now deregistered. Blue is the new Red-Brown.
Not only, though not least, because it also advocates a complete statutory ban on unpaid internships, a principle obviously extendable to workfare, buy the book here.
David Lindsay |
February 25, 2012 at 05:06 PM
It's not "a small number of people", Polly Toynbe started this one off. However, Tories really need to realize they are not the "elite" any more. The Left is the country's elite now and it can be seen anywhere with attempts to misrepresent the government in order to stop the government achieving anything. You have to remember for decades the Left has been advancing, they are the "progressives" i.e. support for tax, spend, ending individual responsibility and them telling everybody what to do. Suddenly the Right is moving in to their progressive world with different ideas - disaster, this justifies anything when trying to stop the government. E.g;
The BBC happily gave a whole night to largely dishonest reporting following the "veto". (They must have know we would be at three EU meetings the following week.)
The C of E Bishops don't like the (new, non progressive)idea of work paying more than not working so they invent an argument about about Child Benefit to push the not working income cap to nearly £50k to wreck IDSs idea. (Their argument says they are representing children who havn't the vote but they know Child Benefit doesn't get paid to children but to parents - who have the vote.)
The National Trust says the new Planning proposals will lead to green fields being built on all over the country. But, pin them down, and what they are saying is that this might happen if there isn't a local area plan in place. (The problem is some local authorities not producing plans but the Left running the NT arn't going to say that if they can misrepresent the proposals and even turn the DT into a useful idiot.)
And so on. One suspects the message is dawning even at the DT. It should be dawning here as well.
David Sergeant |
February 25, 2012 at 05:55 PM
Just wanted George to know we found yet another document that disappeared:
Seems working without remuneration is one of his favourite policies.
February 25, 2012 at 06:09 PM
Long time since you posted here David. I have missed your weird and nonsensical posts.I'm sure you're right the Conservative party is just a far left front.
Malcolm Dunn |
February 25, 2012 at 06:11 PM
Just sticking with "14". It is saying that mandating the participants this way treats them separately otherwise they are employees which is not the intention.
David Sergeant |
February 25, 2012 at 06:33 PM
With regard to arsenekknows - that "unpaid" intern is now fully employed and paid by George in Westminster. The internship was for a transitional period over a year ago.
Alan Ironside |
February 25, 2012 at 07:03 PM
And these people?
And please note this is not a partisan point as I have also raised the same point with Labour and Lib Dems.
The problem is there are so many unpaid jobs around that it's a bloody miracle for a young person to get paid.
I would love to know the total number of people in the UK on workfare, internships, apprenticeships etc etc who are on less than minimum wage and how that is good for the economy.
February 25, 2012 at 07:43 PM
I know that I am. And so could you if (let's hope that the link works this time) you bought the book here - http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/confessions-of-an-old-labour-high-tory/18902984
Oh, and ignore the negative comments, which are all by the same person, a former student of mine who has mental health problems.
David Lindsay |
February 25, 2012 at 07:44 PM
Well! if the government finds it work scheme subverted by a bunch of bar-room trots like the SWP, it can't be much of a scheme.
If the government can't outwit Citizen Smith and his pals, can't be much of a government.
February 25, 2012 at 07:54 PM
" a handful of commies" who have no idea what it is like to be poor or out of work. They probably live in a little bubble of prosperity and have no idea what it is like to have no hope of getting a job.
I wish that they would get out of the nasty corner and go out and research what needs to be done to get Labour's lost generations back to work. That's what IDS did years ago and he knows exactly what he is doing.
If they had ever had to try to write a CV for someone who has had no experience of work at all they might be a bit more sympathetic. Before Labour were in power young people from all financial groups were able to get Saturday jobs which helped them to gain the skills that employers wanted. Due to various Labour policies these jobs are now virtually non existent. Our young people desperately need these work placements in order to build a CV. In fact they probably need several different work placements to gain enough skills build a good CV. I am so angry that these pampered, rich "commie"kids are denying people from poorer backgrounds the right to work and build a good life for themselves.
Unemployed people regularly worked for nothing under Labour, it was called volunteering and they got an extra £15 a week to cover any expenses. So what's different now? Where were all these people then?
February 25, 2012 at 08:19 PM
Here's someone who could do with some help in how to write a letter
'Unemployed people regularly worked for nothing under Labour, it was called volunteering and they got an extra £15 a week to cover any expenses. So what's different now?' £15 for a start
February 25, 2012 at 09:15 PM
Bob - why should the tax payer pay unemployed people to lay about at home watching TV?
The scheme is a good one and is supported by the majority.
We now have another vocal minority group in the socialist workers trying to run the country.
Work experience whilst retaining benefits is a good idea and the companies involved should hold their nerve and do what is right rather than shake at the knees after a few blogs from socialist anarchists.
February 25, 2012 at 09:27 PM
"Oh, and ignore the negative comments, which are all by the same person, a former student of mine who has mental health problems."
I bet! Frankly that’s way too convenient an explanation, as even loonies have motives.
Otherwise your post is a fine read, which contains at least a grain of truth.
It has always been SWP policy to integrate into the main parties. Some do it because they have seen the light, but others do it because that is how committed trots work.
Viz BIz |
February 25, 2012 at 10:08 PM
You are seeing things through a very simplistic notion by concentrating on a few very profitable organisations that could afford to continually employ unsuitable youngsters and then let them go when it doesn't work out (although, in my experience, it tends to be the youngster not turning up for work). But, why would even these organisations take a chance on the unskilled inexperienced young when there is a large pool of underemployed and immigrants who will do the same job?
There are many businesses who don't make the profits that Tesco do. There are also many small and medium sized businesses that would be ideal for this programme, that find the cost of employing and training inexperienced staff prohibitive. Any scheme which gives a youngster a 50% chance of a proper paid job - one to which they are suited and will last long term - has to be worth them working for a few hours for a few weeks for only there benefit money plus expenses, has to be worth it.
Think longer term than six weeks and help youngsters get themselves off the dole and into work.
February 25, 2012 at 10:32 PM
If you want to run policies according to public support when are you going to drop the NHS reforms?
February 25, 2012 at 10:35 PM
Why should companies be the only ones to benefit? Why can't I have someone come round and clean my toilet? I pay my taxes.
Dan Ash |
February 25, 2012 at 10:45 PM
The £15 was intended to cover their expenses, I believe that people who attend a work placement nowadays are paid their travel expenses.
February 25, 2012 at 10:57 PM
It was £15 20 years ago.
there's more, here's a quote from the SOCIAL SECURITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE MINUTES 12/11 December 2011
'There was also evidence to suggest that work experience placements were being taken on to cover Christmas vacancies'
The more the scheme is investigated the less it looks like a work experience scheme and the more like a subsidy for exploitative companies.
February 25, 2012 at 11:30 PM
So in other words, this isn't what the scheme was intended for but some companies treat it as such? Hardly a reason to diss the scheme itself.
Public Sector Worker |
February 25, 2012 at 11:35 PM
Advertise for an intern and just wait for the lucky person to turn up.
Public Sector Worker |
February 25, 2012 at 11:36 PM
"they should have pride in at least doing something"
Yes, because nothing improves one's self esteem like being forced to do slave labour, does it?
Phil Hunt |
February 25, 2012 at 11:52 PM
"denying youngsters the chance to smaple different activities and develop skills so that they have at least a chance of competing for work"
Well if these scheems are such wonderful opportunities, surely people will be queuing up to do them; why do the government have to make them compulsory? Because they aren't wonderful,b they are crap. Forcing people to stack shelves for a month fro nothing doesn't provide any real training or skills, it is merely slave labour.
Phil Hunt |
February 25, 2012 at 11:56 PM
And not only Trots. Kaschke was not and is not a Trot. The various Asian communalists were not and are not Trots. The 1980s Radical Right, pro-apartheid and pro-Pinochet, were not Trots then and are not Trots around the Cabinet table now. Across the board, there is not the slightest suggestion of anything less than total openness.
Three toxic streams flow into our Political Class: the 1970s campus-based Far Left, the 1980s campus-based Far Right, and the SDP. But those streams are by no means entirely distinct. For example, the upper classes were the only section of society in which, right up to the fall of the Soviet Union and even beyond, it was perfectly respectable to profess oneself a Communist. It was just dismissed, in an attitude unknown to the rest of Britain at the time, as an amusing little eccentricity such as any proper toff is obliged to have. Then as now, and really at every point in between, anyone who was sufficiently grand could secure advancement in the Conservative Party, and it was considered vulgar to enquire as to specific political opinions, then as now, and really at every point in between.
Who would look for them in the Conservative Party? Yet the utterly posh world of MI6 and the upper echelons of MI5 was absolutely riddled with them right up until the bitter end, to the point that it had become a standing joke even among the general public. Everyone knew that the KGB’s main recruitment ground was not the patriotic, socially conservative trade union movement or anything like that, but Oxbridge in general and Cambridge in particular, and only the public school rather than the grammar school circles even there. The perfectly preposterous idea that Harold Wilson, of all people, and for heaven’s sake even Ted Short and George Thomas in the more recent versions, were somehow Soviet sleeper agents continues to serve what has always been its purpose, that of pure distraction from what ought to be the blindingly obvious.
In 1981, Michael Foot refused to endorse Peter Tatchell as a candidate for the House of Commons; in 2010, David Cameron offered Tatchell a seat in the House of Lords. The only British Minister ever known to have been an agent of the Soviet Bloc (specifically, of Czechoslovakia) was John Stonehouse, the Labour MP most closely associated with the proto-Thatcherite Institute of Economic Affairs in the days when it was still trying to persuade both main parties, and later the only MP ever to have sat in the English separatist interest, before, having left Parliament, he joined the SDP. In Stonehouse, the three toxic streams met. He cannot have been the only one. He was not.
And he is not. Chris Huhne had very close ties to the International Marxist Group while at Oxford. Sue Slipman, one of David Owen’s closest allies, had been a Communist Party member of sufficient prominence to be made President of the National Union of Students, a position by then openly in that party’s gift, only a very few years before joining the SDP, which she then told to “retain the classless opportunities provided by Thatcherism”, to “civilise the Thatcherite project”, and to “be a friendly critic of Thatcherism”.
One could go on. And one does. Here - http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/confessions-of-an-old-labour-high-tory/18902984
As for my ex-student, believe me, he is a loony.
David Lindsay |
February 26, 2012 at 12:01 AM
You obviously don't want our young people to get jobs and to be self sufficient. You obviously want to keep them enslaved to Labour's benefit culture, out of work for ever, rioting on the streets and never ever having a chance of a decent life. What lovely people lefties are. Keeping the the younger generation enslaved in order to progress the vested interests of the Unions and the Left leaning parties.
February 26, 2012 at 02:17 PM
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